Mike Chiari: You and your voice are synonymous with a lot of the greatest and most memorable moments in wrestling history. But what is the one match or moment that you didn’t call from the announce table that you’d like to if you could go back in time and make it happen?
Jim Ross: Well I think probably the one I would have liked to call was the main event of WrestleMania 3. It was such a ground breaking event. If you’re going to be a part of a ground breaking event, you want to be a part of the main event. I would say Hogan and Andre at WrestleMania 3. It was such a simplistic match to call, it would have been very easy to call it from a stand point of what they did, but the drama one could add to the moment and to what the match meant. Some broadcasters show up, do their gig, and leave. They are just there to collect a payday. I always looked at it more than that and the big picture. The big picture for the Hulk and Andre match was that it was really going to create a buzz in the business. It was going to make the business better for everybody and create a great awareness of pro-wrestling. So I would say Hogan and Andre WrestleMania 3 would have been a real fun match to have called.
Brandon Galvin: To piggyback off Mike’s question, is there a match or moment that you called that you wish you could re-do?
Jim Ross: Probably a lot of them if I go back and listen to them. I am my own worst critic. One of the advantages I have enjoyed of the WWE network that I subscribe to since day one and I certainly am renewing. I can go back and listen to some of my work on those old pay-per-views from WCW and WWE. Right now, I’m working on my auto-biography and were getting close to the part where I talk about the death of Owen Hart. I have to go back and watch that segment of pay-per-view from 1999, and I have never looked at it ever. I’m kind of dreading that to be honest with you. I purposefully never looked at it, I didn’t want to see it again, I already lived it and that was enough.
I think I could have done a better job calling the Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair retirement match. It just seemed that our timing at the table that night was off for me. I always look back at that match, it was Ric’s last match inWWE, Shawn was in the ring with him, and it was a big deal. I was the third guy in the booth that night withLawler and Cole. I’m not a big three men in the booth type of guy. Not that it can’t work, it can, but it seems to not work more often than not to me. I would say the Flair-Michaels match from WrestleMania 24 I would of liked to of had another shot at it.
Donald Wood: It’s well documented that you’ve had a tumultuous relationship with Vince McMahon and the WWE over the years. How would you describe the relationship between yourself and Mr. McMahon now?
Jim Ross: It’s actually pretty good. We text from time to time and talk on the phone from time to time now. Not a lot, not regularly, but you know, its fine. Vince and I got along and had a tremendous relationship. People have to understand where our relationship started. From day one, what we have built and what we survived at the time when the company was almost bankrupt. We were laying off people left and right, pay cuts, lot of people were bailing. Those of us that stayed loyal were rewarded financially. I signed at one point in the mid 90’s a ten year contract. I don’t know anyone that had a ten year contract with Vince and kept it. I have this thing about keeping my commitments and keeping my word. I kept my word and fulfilled my ten years and he paid me very, very well.
I made more money with him than I did with anyone else combined. He told me if I stayed with him I would have nothing to worry about financially when I got older. Our issues were mainly philosophic. It was like two football coaches who wanted to run a 3-4 defense and the other wants to run a 4-3. I could plead my case why the 3-4 is better cause I got four great linebackers I can use and he could tell me why the 4-3 is better because he’s got four defense lineman that are outstanding. Our stuff was more philosophical more than anything else. At the end of the day, he won the argument more often than not because he owned the company. My dad taught me a long time ago, if you’re going to work for somebody and you’re going to take their money, you need to do what they tell you to do. So the day when you can’t look yourself in the mirror and do what they want you to do, you need to quit cashing their checks. I just cashed a WWE check the other day so I got no issues with them whatsoever. A lot of that stuff about McMahon and I has been blown out of proportion.
He knows I take myself too seriously. He knows I wear my feelings on my sleeve, and he likes to be able to get under my skin. He gets a kick out of it and I can understand that, I get it. No one should mistake what I am saying that we talk regularly because we do not. But we still communicate, like have a few laughs in a text message or special occasions come up. We accomplished a great deal together. That talent roster that he gave me the ability to hire, they are still using those guys. John Cena last time I looked, Randy Orton last time I looked, Batista and the Rock in and out. We did accomplish a lot of great things together and I never worked with anyone that worked harder. Now, I’m not kissing his ass or anything like I need a job, cause I don’t need a job, I got plenty to do.
I watched a lot of my peers go through their money with cocaine, marijuana, booze, wives, and more. I decided I was going to save my money. I was going to retire at 55, I’m 62 now, and having more fun than I ever have since the Attitude Era. Yea we butted heads, had our pissing contest, but there is still a lot of respect there. He knows that if there is a jam, I am a phone call away and vice versa. Was it tumultuous? Sure. Did we hate each other? Absolutely not. I had the balls at the time to say when I thought he was wrong in a polite way. He had a lot of people that he paid a lot of money that took the path of least resistance. They would bitch about it afterwards when the decision had been made instead of being polite, diplomatic, and conversing when given the opportunity. Some of those guys are still there now which I would assume they are. Some though should be ashamed of themselves. Vince paid them damn good money to be honest. It’s just the fact that some of them just don’t have good presentation skills and don’t know how to present themselves while making a point. That’s just the art of communicating.
Mike Chiari: One thing that many wrestling fans are critical of is WWE’s usage of and dependence on part-time Superstars such as Brock Lesnar or The Rock when he’s an active competitor. What is your overall opinion on the emergence of the part-time Superstar in wrestling today, and how well do you feel WWE utilizes them?
Jim Ross: Well, I think until you get some guys close to getting over, you gotta do all you can to get as many eyeballs watching your vehicle as you can. Whether it’s Monday Night Raw, pay-per-view, or subscribing to the network, whatever it may be. I think using some of these established stars in reoccurring roles has absolutely nothing wrong with it. I think if you plan long term, you can use them more effectively with the thought in mind that they are they to help someone get better whether as an ally or an enemy. Does that mean let your returning baby come back and lose? Not necessarily. If you think that is the only way then you’re not really a student of the game. You are pretending you understand the business. I called a lot of matches where the guy losing was a lot better off leaving the ring as a loser then entering the ring on their introduction. I think it’s the smart thing to do to draw eyeballs to your television set. They can be more strategic in how they use these individuals and help enhance the young guys around them in a multitude of ways.
Like recently when Rusev was in the ring with the Rock. I love the rub, but I didn’t like the bumps. An old schoolbooker would have never allowed a part-time guy to come in and bump his budding heel around the ring. It was unnecessary. You got them together, looking at each other ready to go, and you had Lana. All you had to do was have her step in the middle of them and order the Russian to leave, or Bulgarian whatever the hell he is this week. He would have had heat because he took orders from a woman, he would have backed out of the ring with a glare in his eyes looking at the Rock in the ring who stood his ground and was ready to go. Rock would not have laid a hand on the female, maybe given her a verbal lashing, but never a physical one. Then the heel would have left backing out of the ring, backing up the ramp, and he would have retained some heat. Then the announcer could say, “He is picking his spots. Discretion on this day is a better part of valor. If you think Rusev is afraid of the Rock then you are mighty wrong. Rusev is only doing what he is told by this woman who obviously has a bigger hold over Rusev then we ever would have dreamed. That someday somewhere the situation can manifest itself and that’s when the talking will be over.”
So easy to tell those stories and that’s from a booking philosophy. I could go to Vince and tell him I think were screwing up by having Rock punch this kid and then he takes the big bump over the top rope and then stand eight feet away on the outside fuming with the Rock looking down at him. Why wouldn’t he fight him now? What is there an invisible force field to keep them apart? Its bad booking in my view and philopshically the wrong thing to do. But if the boss says that is what he wants to do, then I’m the first guy at the head of the line saying I am going to go commentate it and try to make it the best I possibly can.
The issue is at the end of the day is the announcers making sure they know who the guy getting taken care of is the heel. He’s the one that’s getting over. The other guy is already over if you haven’t noticed. Those are the ways to get the rub and how you do it and it’s very subjective. It’s like saying what your favorite color of blue is. Navy? Carolina? Pale? I don’t have an issue with them using established guys that way. You think people are gonna bitch and raise hell if Austin comes back at WrestleMania in a year or two? “Oh that’s a travesty it’s just horrible oh God. He’s taking someone’s spot that should be on the card. I’ve been a wrestling fan for 15 years, I’m 17 years old, I’ve been a wrestling fan since I was 2 years old and I know this is wrong”. Alright, take it easy there Tiger.
Brandon Galvin: Many fans today have noticed that there appears to be a lack of focus on the wrestlers, the match and even the storylines from the commentators. Is this something you pick up on as well and could you explain why commentators may stray from what many feel is their ultimate task in putting over the wrestlers or match?
Jim Ross: Well, I still have my hearing so I can hear what you are saying, I’m not that old. Is it what I prefer to hear? Nope. Is it what I prefer to broadcast? Nope. Why are they doing it then? Well it’s because it’s how it’s produced and that’s what the boss wants them to do. So the announcers are doing what they are instructed to do and that is what they should do. Once people get out and get a full time job and people that have full time jobs will know what I mean. Sometimes your boss tells you to do things that you don’t feel, but he is the boss and he is paying your checks so it’s smart to do what you’re told to do. I thought I told stories pretty well, but now people say, “JR is old school, play by play wrestling announcer, time has passed him by”. These guys today are modern day story tellers. I thought I told stories as well, but some think I didn’t.
My sense of it is the fellas are doing what they are instructed to do as it was done in the production meetings. From what they hear in their headsets, they are following the instructions of the boss and how he wants his product represented. I don’t remember the last time I talked to Lawler, Cole, or JBL. I don’t know if I have talked to them this year. Maybe I have and I forgot. I feel bad people throw them under the bus and verbally beat them up on Twitter and other social media sites.
Ask Foley or Taz how challenging it could be. Michael Cole has the most challenging job any of us have ever had sitting in that middle chair. With all the social media, the network, the things you have to promote, my style would not fit in today’s product. I’m very happy and lucky that its Michael is the one doing the lead story telling now instead of me. I would not enjoy going to work every day. Like a shopping mall, having to promote everything. JBL and Lawler do some of it, but Cole does the majority of it. I admire what Michael does considering the hand that he was dealt. He started out many years ago working with me when styles were different and he knows the styles. He knows what it’s like to run the wishbone, but now they are running the spread offense. He is in a tough situation and a lot of fans don’t like what they hear, but that’s what the announcers are told to do.
Donald Wood: Earlier this month you announced for Battlegrounds MMA alongside UFC legendChaelSonnen. What were your thoughts on that experience and what were some of the differences between calling a wrestling match and a MMA fight?
Jim Ross: Well, part of it there was a lot of wrestling matches that I did not know the outcome. I didn’t want to know it. I stopped a lot of agents mid-sentence, “Hey, this is what we’re going to do tonight”, and I would ask if there was one small nuance I needed to know that was imperative to the story. If not, I’d rather call it as I see it. People think I knew everything that happened. Are you kidding me? You think I would remember every high spot, every false finish? And every zig zag in a wrestling match with the volume of product we had every week? I’d be in a rubber room somewhere. I’d rather call it like a sporting event. Put it on the monitor and I’ll call it as I see it. Chael and I will be doing more MMA together. We are actually getting inquires on MMA and boxing. We have agents and representatives that are having talks and I have the sense were going to be doing a lot of things together. We like working together and we have great chemistry together.
They brought me in first because this group was an Oklahoma group and grew up listening to me. So I recommended Chael, they like it, and they brought him in. I didn’t prepare a lot differently. I told Chael I would talk about the fighters like they are human beings: Who they are, what they are, where they are from, why I should care about them, why I should give a damn. You talk about the fighters as a fighter: What they’re good at, their strengths, weakness, what their game plan should be. Every fight isn’t the greatest ever. We didn’t crap on them, but we did have a little fun. We added some levity to it, I mean come in, its entertainment. It’s not like we were narrating our broadcast like a funeral treatment. It’s MMA, some of its fun, some of its serious and its challenging. Calling MMA is like calling old school pro wrestling in Mid-South or NWA era, but it’s a lot more challenging than boxing. Boxing is easier than MMA. Boxing you get hit with a right hand, or a left hand, maybe a head butt. With pro wrestling and MMA the attack can come from anywhere. It was definitely bucket list item and I’d love to do more.
Mike Chiari: Even though WWE and professional wrestling as a whole may not be in an ideal state currently, I think most would agree that there’s a ton of talent involved in the business today. With that said, if you were tasked with building a wrestling company from the ground up, who would you choose as your cornerstone guy and why?
Jim Ross: The cornerstone guy would be someone with a lot of money because I’m not gonna spend my money on doing it. I don’t think it’s very feasible. It would have to be an investment group with a lot of money. You just can’t go pluck a guy out of mid-air and say that’s gonna be my guy. People say, “I can’t believe youdidn’t say CM Punk automatically. JR is disconnected, he’s not with it any more.” I’m not saying I wouldn’t want CM Punk or Steve Austin involved, that wouldn’t be very bright. There is two elements to making a wrestling territory successful and its talent and television. There is enough talent out there to get a roster jump started especially if you change the procedure. I want to have time limits, more finishes, and rules.
I’m not going to go back to the 1920’s, but how are you supposed to have an athletic contest with no rules? It’sludacris. How are heels gonna be heels if there are no rules to break? It’s illogical. So the first guy you want to have is a conglomerate with a lot of money and patience to allow you to build your television audience. You want to use any name identity to get you over the hump while you are getting young stars over. The guys that would be getting the most time would be guys in their 20’s. They would be young, athletic, would have a little bit of that All Japan style back in the day so when someone deliver a body tackle or clothesline there was impact. We would be using great finishers for high spots.
Now I’m not saying slow everything down to where you lay in a headlock for 30 minutes. Just get back to the fundamentals instead of a spot fest and encourage guys to learn the art form of how to sell and take their time. One of my big pet peeves is when a wrestler mounts a second turnbuckle and hits his opponent ten times in the face. That’s just one of the great exposés of wrestling. Number one, the guy doesn’t fall until he is hit the tenth time, number two, there is no marks on his face where he got hit, number three, the guy throwing the punches isn’t even selling his untapped hand after ten punches. That all tells me a lot of those guys doing that haven’t ever been in a fight. You can’t hit a guy ten times in the face and not hurt your own hand, it’s essentially impossible.
We would be more modernized and basic fundamentals, but build young, athletic, and physical wrestlers; that would be my mantra. The most important element of building a company is your backers with deep, deep pockets and preferably with a television network. So you’re not preempted and you got a great television time. You certainly wouldn’t do a show over two hours. When you start, one hour should be your calling card. Maybe once a quarter do a two hour special or something. An hour doesn’t kill me and I can get everything in in one hour.
Brandon Galvin: You were the voice of the Attitude Era, which was spear-headed by Stone Cold Steve Austin playing a beloved anti-hero. The topic of a John Cena heel turn has been discussed for more than five years with fans yearning for more of an edge from Cena. Do you think the hatred towardsCena is fair with him trying to work as a babyface in the confines of a PG Era?
Jim Ross: Well if John Cena turns heel, would the people booing him now cheer him? I don’t know the logic or the answer. Let’s go Cena, Cena sucks. He still sells more merchandise than anyone on the roster. For whatever he is, I think part of that stuff is just trendy. I need a really good reason to turn Cena heel and itwouldn’t be because of crowd chants. Ticket sales, live event business, kids merchandise, things like that are a very good indicator. I’m not a major fan of turning him heel, but I’m not opposed to it. All those things have to be done for the right reasons. Right now we have a wrestling public that has very little patience. I heard someone the other day say they couldn’t believe that Sheamus and the Usos have been in three six-man tag matches and how much longer do they have to watch this. That’s like saying, “Why would you want to watch Rock and Austin at WrestleMania three times?” Once is enough don’t you think?
I read a story that out of 52 Wednesdays, Dory Funk Sr. wrestled Iron Mike DiBiase 37 times.They changed the match up, they are performers, and they changed up the presentation every time. I find it somewhat head scratching that people call themselves wrestling fans and students of the game automatically get turned off if someone wrestlers more than once. I have seen a lot of Orton and Cena, I signed both of those guys, and have no regrets. I am so excited and they have made a lot of money and secured their futures through the jobs that we secured for them. I’m very proud of both of those guys, but I’m also very tired of them wrestling each other. I’d like to see them wrestle other people and it would help invigorate them. Now that’s not saying anything bad about those guys. I’m not riding the fence, but if you’re tired of something after three matches, you could easily say it wasn’t very good, you didn’t like it and three times is enough for me. Quite frankly that’s not a good gauge of something in that regard but that’s where we are. That’s why we have to have more people on the roster trying to get over and get their shots.
That’s why when they bring in guys from NXT they gotta bring them in as main event level guys so if they go down a notch or two they are still in the hunt. They bring them in as just another guy it’s a long journey to go from just another guy to a main eventer. They gotta come in with a game plan. I’m concerned about the lack of main event depth, but until you get more of that you’re gonna see a lot of those rematches, tag matches, and things of that nature. I’d like to see less handicap matches. They are getting a little old but used to be special. When you saw a handicap match, it used to put the baby face in jeopardy and a lot of trouble. Now a days it’s just another match, and nothing should ever be just another match. It should always have a story or a reason. Things are always short term or quickly and there isn’t a reason behind it. It comes back to long term planning which is non-existent or incredibly sporadic.
Nick was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, and lived there until the age of 18, when he decided to pack his flack jacket and move to New York City.
